Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Friday, July 27, 2012

That's just the way it is

I apologize in advance: this one's going to come off sounding like a bit of a rant.

I find myself increasingly losing patience with some of the things we've all just come to accept in EVE Online as "that's just the way it is."  It doesn't have to be.  Most of these things are quite easy to fix or to change.  Almost nobody wants these things to be the way they are.  But everyone involved from the developers to the players has come to accept them and not even really think about them any more.

Problem is that I've been trying to introduce new players to the game here and there, and many of them see and laugh at these quirks... or more often, include them in lists of reasons why they stop playing.  So I thought I'd list some of them and ask why they are the way they are.

As you read these things, just realize that we accept all of these things.  Why do we accept them?  Are there good reasons for them?

Why does autopilot drop you 10km from the gate you wish to go through?  The only reason I can think of is so that other people get a full four or five minutes to scan your cargo and see if they want to suicide-gank you.  Wouldn't it be nice if these people had to develop some actual EVE-playing skill?  It's funny how many macros have sprung up over the years to avoid this.

Similarly, I am apparently one of the few mutants that flies strategic cruisers without using an eject macro to prevent skill-point loss.  Is there still a good reason for this loss?

Similar to that one, why doesn't the game automatically ask you if you wish to upgrade your clone after you get podded?  The only reason I can think of not to is to punish drunk people and forgetful people.  Is EVE deliberately trying to chase off such people, or is it a sociology experiment to determine how many times the same player will retrain the same skill?

I have a high-sec POS.  This means I have to buy Starbase Charters from the Loyalty Point store.  But I can only buy them one hundred at a time.  When I buy them, I buy 5000 of them.  That means I have to click a little "Accept" button fifty times.  God help you if you want to buy Navy Cap Boosters in any quantity.  Again, there are readily-available macros to help you avoid RSI from that click-fest.

I've asked this one before, but it bears repeating: why is my ability to put up a high-sec POS limited by the pilots in my corporation that the Empires hate?  Isn't this a bit like Mexico refusing to let Ford build a factory there because a Ford janitor said something mean about Mexico once?

Another one I've asked before: why can I bribe CONCORD and the Empire navies to look the other way while I shoot some dude in high-sec (war-decs) but I can't bring my -10 security status character into high-sec and bribe them to look the other way while I don't?

Why does character security status exist at all?  If EVE is a dark, cold universe, can't we all just assume that EVE is a dark, cold universe all the time?

Why can't I put a bounty on anyone I wish to?

Why must I look at every single PI extractor on every single planet on every single character I have, one at a time?  Why doesn't the game allow me to right click on a PI planet and select "Restart all extractors"?  Yes, I realize that means I might lose a tiny bit of efficiency here and there.

Why is the only ship that can carry other ships in an SMA in high-sec a mining support ship?  Specifically: why must I train mining skills to fly it?  You would think there would be an industrial ship that could do this by now.

I tried to introduce a new player to the game.  He quit after a week, then started ranting about a variety of new player topics.  He kind of amused me with this one: "During the tutorial, why does the game give me a weapon that can shoot a maximum of five kilometers, then give me a slow spaceship... and then put the spawn points 40 kilometers away from me?"

Then he started ranting about how all the things he needed to buy to fit his ship to complete the tutorial missions were only for sale ten jumps away from the tutorial missions.  I didn't have the heart to tell him that longer-term EVE players think of ten jumps as "a short trip."  I also didn't have the heart to tell him the market he was looking to buy these things from was way more expensive than longer-distance alternatives.(1)

Why oh why can we select a large block of different items, and reprocess them, trash them, repackage them, move them, or contract them... but we still can't sell them?

Similar: why must I buy every piece of a ship fitting separately?  Wouldn't it be cool if you could just drag a ship fitting into a market window somewhere and the game just asked you "This ship and fitting will cost 31.7 million ISK in this market.  Buy it?"

When I have 100 items for sale on the market, why must I individually right click each one and select "View market details" to see if I'm selling it for the lowest price for that item?  Wouldn't it be kind of cool if I could get a display of those 100 items, what I'm selling them for, what market I'm selling them at, and what the lowest price is for that item at that market?

If I select "sell item", then "advanced", why doesn't the game just go ahead and assume that I'd like to beat the lowest price on that market and set that as my default price?  Where does the price it selects come from?

When something is for sale on contract only in Jita, why can't I just accept the contract from another region?  Is there a good reason for this?

And finally, the grand-daddy: why must we all have Jita alts?  Is there a good reason for me not to be able to look at what prices are in any market I choose?

Answer to all of the above: that's just the way it is.

I'm sure I've missed a lot of these.  Weekend homework assignment: what are your biggest "that's just the way it is" pet peeves with EVE?  Discuss.

EDIT (28/Jul/2012): Lots of comments, which is not surprising.  SerpentineLogic probably has my favorite so far: why must we wait 24 hours between clone jumps?!?  The blog post proposes a new skill to shorten the time between jumps.  I propose just nuking the wait time.  What reason is there for it at all?  Great comments, everyone!


(1) He created a Minmatar character.

106 comments:

  1. Why Jester, Why must the Titan Bridge button be so close to the Titan jump button?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Why is there no "jump" button for jump bridges? Why do I have to fit a mod just to know how much ore is left on a rock? Why can I not "aim" the undock of a station when I'm putting one down? Why can't I cancel a warp? Why are fof missiles still such a huge joke? Why can I not see the capacitor levels of targeted or watch listed ships ? I can go all day... Why can I do that?!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can look at the capacitor level of another ship. It does though require a ship scanner
      ~DarthNefarius

      Delete
    2. You really don't think a logi/carrier will scan all watchlist
      lock scan give cap if they need else select other1 :S

      Delete
  3. Why is Damage Control an active module? I think I read somewhere that long ago they had to make it active due to technical limitations or something... surely that can be fixed by now, right? There is absolutely NO reason for it to be active, other than to punish people who forget to turn it on.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I so hope you'll be CSM chair next year!

    ReplyDelete
  5. The answer to all your questions isn't about eve, but people in general. We all struggled with some 'rough edges' when we were introduced to Eve.

    We learned (or more likely were taught) to adapt to these things, and now we fear that our accomplishments will be somehow less if those barriers are removed.

    In real life you'd hear "Back in my day we walked to school, uphill!" - in EVE you hear "We had to make bookmarks, and copy them to get warp to zero!"

    I think it is endemic to the human condition that we do not want to see things made better if we had to overcome those things. There's probably a name for it, like a syndrome or an effect or someones law describing it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. erm...the topic is about introducing the game to potential customers who cringe at things they see. showing them HTFU video might be good for a chuckle, but really? come on.

      Delete
  6. Why do you need the overview to keep track of a handful of ships? I tried luring a friend from TOR into Eve and he quit after playing for about an hour because he was interacting with the overview, not with ships in space.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The main one I thought was the LP store. There is no way to categorize it, like the market, you just have to continually scroll throughout it looking for the item you wan. Yeah and the charters also suck.

    I thought tutorial wasn't that bad.

    Yeah rebuilding ships is a big hassle. Reason I don't like to get ganked. Rebuilt so many retrievers, don't want to again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ever tried using the 'fit' button in the fittings 'browser' window?

      Delete
    2. Might be useful if it's just industrials and barges... But if you're looking at overloading your modules on that ship, the fittings browser doesn't really seem keep the same allocation you give to your modules. I haven't tried this and i couldn't be bothered at the moment because all of my characters are in wspace and the modules don't really fit into all of cargoholds.

      And even if it kept the things arranged, there's also UI console ordering, weapon grouping, etc.

      It's still fu***d up mate.

      Delete
    3. Actually you can sort the LP store. There are filters, and you can make your own filters there! Pretty neat thing!:)

      Delete
  8. I have one. Why must I stop my training and leave my ship in order to jump clone?

    Oh and why in the world do I have to completely log off the game, enter my credentials again, just to switch to an alt on the same account? Why not just take me straight to the character selection screen?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i can see CCP getting alot of hate mails about "Y U HALT MY SKILL TRAINING!?!?!1" haha

      ugh. yeah, the second paragraph...wow...i totally take that for granted. grrrr...

      Delete
    2. I might be delusional, but I think I remember a time when you could switch characters exactly that way. The feature was removed because of the logout mechanics. Apparently, a character logged in would exit space prematurely if another character on the same account was logged in. The original form of loggoffski.

      Since that isn't the same issue anymore, you'd think it would be reversed. It simply isn't a priority I guess.

      Delete
  9. Select a bunch of item .. and sell them all at ones.

    Def. my biggest "Why the hell EVE .. WHY"

    ReplyDelete
  10. About the first one, I believe many of the older players don't want to restart the warp-to-zero debacle again. You probably know the story.

    About a ship with a decent SMA, this idea isn't new: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=56550&find=unread

    About a way to one-click-buy ship fittings you would need to accept that the prices might change (by an unknown %) from the moment the total amount is shown to the moment you accept it. The other alternative is to lock all involved sell orders, which ins't a viable option at all.

    About all others, probably the devs think it's not worth the headache. It's like the T2 BPO debacle, some players want it to be dealt in one way, others in another way and the devs look at all the back and forth arguing and decide it's better not to mess with these issues.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. maybe it's because Fozzie is an idiot rather than listening to pie in the sky pull it out their butts brainfarts of bored forum trolls.

      Delete
    2. but, honestly, i don't classify the tech problem as a 'pet peeve'...more like, "this is fucking broken g'damnit!"

      Delete
    3. That could easily be timed so that you have to accept the confirmation within a reasonable amount of time to prevent that...

      Delete
  11. Having to pause Skill training if I need to plug-in implants or Jump to another clone.

    This seems Lazy Programming to force a recalc of training times, rather than do it dynamically.

    ReplyDelete
  12. why can't i rename a container in my cargo hold; why must i drop it in space first?

    why can't I look in containers in a POS CHA?

    why can't I assemble my ship in a POS SMA?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Inflicted Misery

    Enjoying oneselves self satifaction in inflicting misery on fellow gamers! Yup, I mean ganking. Yup, I am a carebear in your ganker eyes. Yet, I'd love to play this game, my way. Give me my own wormhole, collapse all entrances and let me play. I come out here and then to play with you on your terms. Blow me up while I am on my way to Jita. Gank me dead when I try to go back to my space. But when I am back home in my whormhole, let me close the door and leave you play your sandbox, and I play my. Why not? Just because it is the way it is? Well, the way it is right now, CCP will loose one player and 5 accounts by the end of the month. That is the way it is, too. o7

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a completely different story. You just chose the wrong game, what Jester is talking about is ironing out "small inconveniences" that turn to major annoyances when having to deal with them for months and years.
      Your problem is different. You just don't like Eve. There is an easy solution for you: go play something else and come back when you have enough of the theme park crap.

      Delete
    2. i hate risk aversion...both in "gankers" and "carebears"...so, thank you for illustrating exactly the stereotype that ruins mmogs. Although i'll give it to you that CCP has "listened" to it's player base of mostly whiny griefers who want to gank people like you with zero risk to themselves...except that's the logic in your implication of what EVE is about isn't it?

      what's wrong with mining in tankable barges in NPC corps that cannot be wardecced? i see alot of those in ice belts being anti-social (little hint as to why they get griefed)

      Delete
  14. A personal pet-peeve: Why does the UI notify you that "So-And-So is attempting to warp scram you" as if it is chance based? It's not! In fact, why isn't warp scramming chance based like ECM? (I know *why*, but still...)

    -Amari

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Warp stabiliser is chance based.

      Theres a chance that you have a Warp core stabiliser fitted.

      Or your ship may have a warp strength of 3 (ie, Mastodon)

      Delete
  15. Let me add one more,
    Everything I want to do is just a little too much and either requires over-kill or is basically impossible.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Not gonna reply to all, but for a couple, they still make sense to me. I was also too lazy to log into my account to post. Yay for anon posting! ~Korvus

    T3 skillpoint loss (I think) lore-wise was associated to the sleeper related materials needed to create them. Sleeper technology is so advanced that it messes with clone stuff; being a "living entity". So when your living Legion ship explodes, it hurts your mind, hence skillpoint loss. This is a crude, probally inaccurate way to explain it, but this is what Ive always though. Tbh, I see it as a bug that you dont take skillpoint loss for ejecting from your ship and it explodes. A minority opinion, Im sure, but a fair viewpoint as well.

    Stopping 10 or 15km from the gates when autopiloting is the tradeoff of actually clicking and being at the keyboard. I remember when warping to 0 on the gate was a hassle when going 50 jumps, but I also barely remember times when warping to 0 at a gate wasnt possible (again, I think, its been so long) I see it as a tradeoff, a consequence of your choice to autopilot or manually fly there. Consequences are what makes Eve, Eve.

    I agree with you on PoS's as well as the LP store item buying. Its why I wasted iskies buying that stuff off the market lol

    Speaking of market, I agree about contracts. I hate that I can see stuff in other regions, but not buy them. However, I disagree in that we should have one global market. Yes, sometimes its inconvenient to have to use a Jita or Amarr trading alt, but thats trhe price you pay for regional markets. I like them, but dislike the world view of contracts. Either make it so I can accept worldwide contracts or make it so you can even see contracts in another region.

    Inconveniance though, since I mentioned it, is part of being negative status. Youre not "bribing" concord to look the other way during wardecs, Youre paying them the taxes associated with high security violence. As a low sec dweller, it is a serious pain in the ass if I want to fly a ship bigger than a frigate or fast cruiser in highsec. Thats the price you pay for being negative status and "Evil" pirate! Again, consequences.

    I do wish however, that people with +5 sec would take bigger hits to their status when ganking or w/e in high sec. I wish that if someonen attacks you on a gate because youre flashy, the rest of your corp can join the fight as well without taking sentry gun fire. It really makes crashing gate camps a serious problem. Plus engaging on gates is fun!

    I agree 100% with the buy a fitting for a ship at once, as well as the sell all selected items.

    Not that I want sov either, but making it so pirates can "claim" low sec space would be nice to have. Some side requirements like everyone in corp or alliance must be -5 or something similar to make it a pirate organization controled area of space, with their logos or w/e like in null is shown as you pass through. I really feel that piracy, small gang and solo combat has taken a backseat to everything else when it should get *some* attention. I do NOT want solo to become the main focus of the game as it has in other MMOs, but things like needing a scout (or dotlan or w/e other side tools)to check for gatecamps is annoying and inconvenient =P Corpmates that scout though is nice.

    ~Korvus

    ReplyDelete
  17. I agree with you on, well, just about all the minor little gripes that you listed (liquidating a couple million LP through ammo is truly a PITA).

    As to why we put up with them while bitching about it...I think it's that all the positive experiences that we've had in this game keeps us in, while those gripes are not on the "damnit, fuck this shit, I'm going back to WoW" level. A flawed diamond, if you will.

    My personal gripes are S&I related: Why can't I queue up more than one industry job at a time? Why am I limited to only 10 (or 11 for those who truly want the max slots) jobs on my POS, manufacturing or science jobs?

    ReplyDelete
  18. "Where does the price it selects come from?"

    Pretty sure it goes like this. The highest buy order you can fulfill. If there isn't one, then it's the regional average. Again if there isn't one, it's the "base price".

    ReplyDelete
  19. "just the way it is" has new meaning in wormholes.

    Why am I hard limited to a preset number of hangers in CHAs? Why can't I make as many as I like?

    Why is POS security limited to 2 roles?

    Why do I have to re-enter a starbase forcefield password everytime I jump back into my home system?

    Why are bookmark copies limited to a few at a time?

    Why did it take screwing up the new inventory in order to allow us to rename all the things attached to a POS?

    we tend to just give up talking about these things and get on with playing but you are dead right...lots of these things are annoying. A few patches dedicated to fixing annoying things and solving usability issues wouldn't go astray.

    One funny observation .. I've run into pilots in the past who rage whenever CCP 'fix' something for the sake of usability - claiming it "dumbs the game down". Bad user experience does not equal "difficult". Well it does, but not the difficulty people think it does.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. oh hey, i have a question: which role does it take to launch/anchor bubbles/cans for corp? i'm guessing it's the same bloody one to fuck around with POS structures too

      Delete
  20. Eve does not have to be a cold, dark universe. The rules just let those that like it that way dictate to the rest of us. Why is that?

    ReplyDelete
  21. I've heard a lot of explanations over the years for some of these mechanics and some of those explanations are still valid. Used to be, for instance, that there was no such thing as 'warp-to-zero' and the alternative was to create hundreds of bookmarks. The explanation was that CCP didn't want travel to be too easy and is the same reason why Auto Pilot doesn't warp to zero.

    A similarly annoying legacy mechanic is the skill queue. Once upon a time, players had to wake up in the middle of the night to reset their skills or risk losing a few hours of training. CCP thought it was important for people to log in regularly, but had a little sympathy for the new player who had to change skills every few hours.

    I've read some suggestions that changing skills would be a good application for the new writable API keys. But CCP could avoid that whole problem by simply increasing the skill queue to infinity.

    I wonder if the game has matured to that point.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. imho, warp to 10km (isn't it 15km?) for autopilot is to punish those who go AFK in a freighter or otherwise aren't actively at their computers.

      course, this explanation didn't make sense back in the days of "every warp takes you to 15km regardless" ...then again, i believe CCP changed the code because they had no idea the game's bookmark system was going to be used to warp to zero (they, developers. they're that dumb)

      They didn't like the lag all those bookmarks were causing so they at first tried to make it more annoying by varying the warp in spot from pinpoint to a 2500m scatter, then they just coded in warp to 0 which did the trick.

      i think their original 'intent' was merely this: they wanted people to admire their shiny pretty jumpgate graphics and rubberneck as they were hitchhiking thru the galaxy happy paying customers who'd leave the devs alone and stop bugging and complaining and whining and trolling and and. lol. you get the idea. (little hint: devs never have an 'intent' other than "ooooo shiny thing!" when it comes to their game)

      Delete
  22. Eve is a terrible game. It only exists because CCP has no competition, and won't for the foreseeable millennium.

    This is the love/hate relationship we all have with Eve and CCP.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I'm with you on about half of these.
    The price the Sell window chooses is the best possible buy order price available at your current location. That's why if you raise it, it says "immediate orders will fail."

    ReplyDelete
  24. "Similar: why must I buy every piece of a ship fitting separately?  Wouldn't it be cool if you could just drag a ship fitting into a market window somewhere and the game just asked you "This ship and fitting will cost 31.7 million ISK in this market.  Buy it?""

    I want this sooooo bad!

    ReplyDelete
  25. I think a lot of these things you listed are enabling some people to give EvE the cold, harsh universe status - e.g. the 10km autopilot thingie, the market thingie, etc.

    On the other hand, the market separation makes trading and hauling viable proffessions. It enables some people to play the sandbox in this specific way (which they must enjoy, otherwise they wouldn't do it).

    Security status and bounties only possible for ebil piwates also has a role in preventing people placing bounties on new players.

    What is really bloody retarded is remote mission completion/accepting. Which is only implemented for certain missions. Why not all of them? I don't mission anymore, but how many times did I have to redock (sometimes after making 5/10 jumps) just because I forgot to click accept...

    Also you select a gate, click jump, then switch to Firefox to post something (doing this right now). Ship warps at 0, then "forgets" to jump. Or dock if you select dock.

    :CCP:

    ReplyDelete
  26. Dead horse as it may be... why do I have to start an invention/manufacturing job on every single blueprint separately instead of right-clicking a bunch of BPs and setting them all, up to my skill limit?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ... or add them to the queue, all at once! It is also interesting possibility to add new skills.

      Delete
  27. my biggest pet peeve is the lack of public fleet adverts. so easy to fix, so widely labeled as spam inducing (from people whose social skills suck)

    my second pet peeve is how 'factory manager' isn't compartmentalized to prevent griefing of a corp's manufacturing/research projects.

    my third pet peeve is having the 'n00b systems' with Aura different than the career agents locations. completely idiotic

    my fourth pet peeve is the aggression flag you get when an NPC attacks you.

    my fifth pet peeve is the idiotic combination of "this person is less than -5" and "this person is under a 15 minute GCC"

    how many pet peeves are we allowed? lol

    my sixth pet peeve is not being able to spot the damage level on a used crystal.

    my seventh is not being able to group weapons while you are docked

    my eighth is the inability to 'look at' things beyond 100km. look, how bad are my ship optics when i can scan for anomalies within 65 au but i can zoom in on something 200 fucking klicks away? srsly

    my ninth is how the eve character creator has people's midsection waaaaay too freaking stretched vertically. I know anyone who has GFs has commented on this. amirite?

    my tenth is how the DATA CENTER agents who ask for tags are just the biggest pains in the butts. How the HELL are we supposed to divine which rats and where drop what? huh? what?

    my eleventh is how the HELL did ccp remove those wickedly cool headdresses you see me wearing here?

    BUT, i have to say in CCP's defense that they got flying through planets right FINALLY. And that warping to 0 is an actual option. GODS did it suck to make 15km bm plots all over eve. really really sucked.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are able to group weapons while docked--shift drag a weapon onto another. The one you are dragging has to be empty-if not it doesn't work but gives you an error message telling you there is no more room in destination container. Which is another thing that probably could be fixed easily but won't

      Delete
    2. You can grp weapons when docked, dont have ammo in them, then hld shift and pick each weapon up and stack on one.

      Delete
    3. You can group weapons while docked, you can group them in the fitting window.

      Delete
    4. U can group weapons while docked, no ammo, hold shift and drag weapons on top of each other

      Delete
    5. freaking awesome! thx folks!

      Delete
  28. It would be cool if we could buy pre-fit ships. That would save some time. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. *soto voco* "devs will just point to the contract system and say, 'we empower players'"

      Delete
  29. Some interesting points. My own pet peeve is this: why with all our advanced technology are we not allowed to transfer a set of XYZ coordinates to other players (bookmarks) without resorting to trading/contracts/jetcans? Yeah, the corp bookmarks help a little, but still it makes very little sense. From a gameplay point of view, I guess it makes sense. Maybe.

    On a related note, why do I have to click "Reply" on this blog, and then have to reload the page a second time before the white, empty comment box shows up for me to type in?

    ReplyDelete
  30. You forgot a very important one: why do we need so many external tools to have even the slightest chance of being good at this game?

    "is it a sociology experiment?" I think you are getting closer to the answer with this. When they implemented WTZ it was only because of the lag all those BMs were generating on the server. Increasing player convenience was an unintended side-effect in the full sense of the word.

    Want another example that shows they think user convenience is something bad? Not too long ago Soundwave said he actually thinks removing the fleet warp option would 'enhance the game-play' by forcing the fleet to organize it by themselves. In their view all these little things give room for the skilled players to outdo the less experienced ones.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wow. i hope he was drunk when he said that...i guess they don't have the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" in Iceland?

      Delete
    2. though, honestly, it would make chasing after stragglers a whole hell of a lot more fun!

      Delete
  31. Replies
    1. Oh gods yes. I'm amazed I didn't think of this one. This one makes me rage so hard.

      Delete
    2. hmph. we should have only 1 jump clone with skill = times we can jump per day. Not really a pet peeve though: one of those 'damnit, ccp, fix this!"

      Delete
    3. The original reason I believe was to prevent a group of players to attack a region in multiple fronts without splitting their forces. Of course, this argument is nill in face of so many bridge titans around.

      Delete
  32. Why when I click on load old crystals do the new crystals get loaded into guns?
    ~DarthNefarius

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. small standard containers are your friend

      Delete
  33. ZOOM! OMG THE ZOOM!
    The scrollwheel works in reverse compared to any other application I have ever used. WHY? And why is there no option to change it?
    One of my friends dropped the game on the first day of trial just because of this. That is probably the stupidest way to scare off customers.

    I also found it retarded that I can only interact with objects through right click popup menus OR after clicking (setting focus to) the overview. Why can't I use keybinds on the selected object for example? WHY?

    There are too many inconveniences without a reason.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is a no brainer... I've been playing EVE non stop and on a daily basis since 2009 and even i get confused about the zooming every now and then.

      That's just the way it is, I guess.

      Delete
  34. Hoo boy. You poked the hornet's nest with this one.

    I started playing a few months ago (although I've been following the game, including this blog, for much longer), and I've been keeping a list, with some vague idea of mailing it to the CSM or someone else at some point. Probably still will. Here's a few choice items.

    1) You know how they changed some of the names of meta items a while back to make it easier to know which items are better without a photographic memory? And how they did that for armor hardeners, plates and propulsion mods and not much else? That whole thing would never have been an issue if, in the show-info window and the market, the SORTED THINGS BY META LEVEL INSTEAD OF ALPHABETICALLY! Seriously! That's all it would take!

    2) Why are there only four or five possible keybindings for push-to-talk in Eve Voice, all of which either are already in use for other shortcuts or are on the right half of the keyboard?

    3) On a related note, why aren't there keybindings to i) switch between locked targets, ii) show info (I know they have one, but it only works on very specific objects in space, so far as I can tell, instead of on everything that I need to show info on), iii) launch drones (or selected drone group, if you have multiple groups), iv) open-and-loot-all

    4) Why can't I double-click on a locked target (the actual thumbnail-and-health bars box) to approach? I can double-click on it on the overview, and I can w- and e- click on the target box to orbit or keep distance, but if I double click the target, nothing. Whyyyyyyyy?

    5) When I click on show market details for a mod, and want to see the prices for other mods in the same meta group so as to make the most cost-effective purchase, can I click on the 'groups' tab on the top of the market window to show all modules in that line? Nope. Instead, the groups tab will show me the most recent market group that I navigated through using the tree menu under browse, despite the fact that I might have been looking up random ships I'll never own hours ago and have just clearly indicated my interest in an entirely different module. Maybe there are certain market pvp scenarios where this is a feature, but for the rest of us the rest of the time? It's a bug.

    6) There are a metric fuckton of statistics associated with ships, modules and such, and only a very few of them are explained in the tutorials. Most do not appear in Evelopedia. I could write a Homeric epic about my quest a few months back to find out why my drones had four different sensor-strength statistics and my ship only had one. Solution? Whereas now, right-clicking on a stat only shows a copy option, it would only be a few days' work for a copywriter to give us a show-info option that explains what a stat is, what it does and (in general terms) what ships, modules and effects might affect it.

    7) Why does the map search function suck? Why can I not set filters to show me the nearest low-sec system, the nearest refinery, the nearest refinery with which I have perfect reputation, the nearest system where I have a bookmark, the nearest lava planet, or the nearest system with any combination of the above options and god-knows how many more? Would that be so hard?

    8) Why can't I sell, reprocess, repackage, or perform any other useful action on an item stored in a station vault? Why do I have to drag it out, fiddle with it, and drag it back in? Is some poor schlub at CCP paid per player click?

    9) And, as Anon1928 asked, why am I so desperately reliant on out-of-game tools to do even basic, fundamental operations like checking prices and fitting ships?

    I'm enjoying Eve. I really am. The other night, I got my first solo PVP kill, and it was about the best feeling I've had in a video game. But goddam, you have to wade through a lot of entirely unnecessary and trivial crap to get to that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YES pls send this to the CSM, or some DEVS too ASAP!
      Especially the MAP filtering thing! It drives me crazy when i search for the closest medical facility and have to manually set waypoints to each nearby one to find wich is closer...

      Delete
  35. Ok as a naughty pie, I'd like to chip in with........

    Why is GCC 15 fucking minutes I been playing since early 2009 and I think I have read this bitch a million times, it's gay so sort it.

    Also why do gate guns have perfect tracking???? Surely they should be under the same rules as the players, also they should fire lasers in amarr hybrids in gallante etc etc and the damage type should match, omni damage seems like a classic cop out to me.

    Also why am I banned for macro mining?? I'm clearly cheating and deserve it but now I got to earn isk......:(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. please stream it on alliance tourney XI

      Delete
  36. I've quite often applied to corps and been hazed about being a spy or a thief. My usual (possibly immature) reaction is ok screw you. At this point the recruiter usually claims he was only hazing. To which my reaction is still screw you then.

    I'd like to see changes so that it's much harder to spy, awox and and steal. Possibly something like all your Eve accounts ever being visible on employment history.

    It wouldn't eliminate using alts for nefarious means, it would just make it much harder.

    Alt play is a huge deterrence for new people. Newbies don't know about clever get-arounds like 51 day alts, can't finance alts with isk. It's easy for new people to feel like Eve is a game where you need to pay for 3 accounts per month to be any good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. [quote]
      I'd like to see changes so that it's much harder to spy, awox and and steal. Possibly something like all your Eve accounts ever being visible on employment history.
      [/quote]

      This needs to be implemented. And soon.
      At least in the API key there should be an option to see it all.

      Delete
    2. That's dumb. I can still just use two different credit cards. Knowing about another player isn't the same thing as being able to trust them.

      Delete
  37. I recently reran the tutorial missions for the heck of it. While they have fixed some of the bugs (e.g. they now give you a mining laser before they require you to mine rather than after, and no longer pop up a window saying you are in the wrong system and sending you elsewhere in the scanning tutorial), the most noticeable change is you can no longer fit the ships they give you without buying modules from the market.
    Most of the drops from the tutorial missions (and level 1 missions for that matter) were meta 0. Before, when you finally received a destroyer as a reward you had more than enough modules to try various fittings. You might have several different guns but at least you could fly it to complete the missions. No longer. Metal scraps just don't do it.
    Hardly the way to retain new players.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. heck, i'm running all of my faction's career agents at all 3 stations cuz i'm not sure whether their "fix" for new player experience includes a nerf to faction boosts from all 15 agents

      Delete
  38. Why do I have to set up each individual PI colony, painstakingly selecting routes and connections for every damn building, when I use at most half-a-dozen cookie cutter templates?

    Why can't I resize the schematics window?

    Why do I need to either use a third party app or some horrific jury rigged database + scripted market scraper + spreadsheet to work out if something is profitable to build?

    Why do I have to drill down half-a-dozen menus to select a fit for each ship, instead of having the 4 most common on a context menu?

    Why, if I have a damn Jita alt, do I have to log out, log back in to find out the market prices?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh yes... PI needs a filter for planet type, and templates to save the layout of the buildings at least.

      The ship fitting window could use an improvement like the relevant fittings to that ship show up in the fitting window in a list or something, it would be sooo convinient!:)

      Delete
  39. Why doesn't the fitting screen show at once, pre-calculated…
    … align time?
    … locking times, like EFT?

    Why don't have lenses any pre-calculated tooltip like "most probably good for another 3000 shots"?

    Why do almost all frigates with Autocannons – even unbonused – more damage than with their native weapons?

    Why do have small hybrid weapons still such ridiculous bad tracking?

    Why can people even eject from vessels which are targetted or locked?

    Why isn't there a button "distribute all the unanchored POS-mods in space/cargo evenly around the POS"?

    Why are there still "starbase charters", why can't it just click on "transfer LP to the POS computer" to fuel that oversized borther of a celestial beacon?

    Why do I have to approach any structures within the force-field of a POS to use them? The limitation could easily be changed to "be 15'000m around the tower, use everything."

    Why don't have alliance the option to tax corporations?

    And well, undocking. I hate docking-games. Why isn't there a limit of docking/undocking operations at the same station per 10 minutes or so? "Wait, the docking crew wants you to wait 5 more minutes, because within the last you made them work 3 times!"

    Why is there still such a thing as "100MN AB Tengu"?

    Whenever we fit our ships, going for the T2 modules is a no-brainer. Whenever beginner fit a ship, they have to chose between 4-5 meta-levels. Shouldn't be the complexity for beginners low and for veterans increased?

    In the light of Diablo 3's gold- and gem-trading – why do we have to play the goddamn 0.01 ISK games at all?

    And there is bridging. Please add a shiny symbol somewhere for every open and available cynosural field. Make it clickable.

    Why do I have to restart the jump-portal module again and again, while the cyno can be set to auto-repeat?

    And why, why do I have to spend hours and hours of my precious time to travel 40-50 jumps in highsec at all? Please re-introduce the highways. Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wow. the highways...erm...didn't they make Yulai's old hub station go boom?

      Delete
    2. "Wait, the docking crew wants you to wait 5 more minutes, because within the last you made them work 3 times!"

      This. 'Cause it makes sense even in terrible internet spaceships.

      Delete
  40. jester, eve is real, otherwise all those quirks wouldnt be there

    ReplyDelete
  41. Why must I do things in order to get things done! It's a game! Everything that isn't fun should be automated. Why can't I just play multiplayer Starfox with Eve ships!!!

    ReplyDelete
  42. .... well SHIT, if this hasn't been cross posted to EVE-online forums everyone should be ashamed.

    ReplyDelete
  43. As mentioned prior, why can BMs only be moved 5 at a time, and why can't they be send to someone as an eve mail attachment? They're numbers, or a map. Another pita, is the mentioned full client shutdown to play an alt. Stupid. On a more mundane note, why do some agent mission screens completely close up and require extra clicks to talk to them, IN station, while others don't? Why isn't auto sort an option that can be turned on? Why isn't auto stack the same way? That new, stupid, extra click, piece of shit inventory, wow, that is an epic post on it's own.

    ReplyDelete
  44. The blog banter you started has a thread on EVE-O, So we can get feed back from the devs about the complaints posted here and in the other blogs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1713207&#post1713207
    Not wanting to copy and paste either your blog or the comments without permission how do you want me to referance your blog.
    -Salpun

    ReplyDelete
  45. As far as autopiloting, I always figured part of it was for Cap regen. I know in some cases, especially when i was newer and travelling (not autopilot, but warping to 0 and jumping) I would hit big systems where I couldnt make it all the way on one jump. By warping a distance away it basically lets your ship recharge sufficient cap to allow you to fully warp. Its the only sorta logical reason I can think of.

    ReplyDelete
  46. I read your posts and I think, "He is right. What the hell is wrong with me, that I am not complaining as well?"

    I think its because I survived Battlecruiser 3000AD V1.0. And I grew up playing Omnitrend's "Universe" series. This results in a very low bar for CCP to hurdle as EVE, with all its irritations, is really the game I wished those games were. I guess for CCP thats a good thing, as I am pretty low maintenance as a player, I just shrug and click on through!

    ReplyDelete
  47. I posted a response here as part of the blog banter you inspired:
    http://interstellarprivateer.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/tilting-the-balance/

    ReplyDelete
  48. Jester,

    I have got to say im disappointed in you! Almost every single change you mentioned there is there to increase risk.

    AP 10km from a gate prevents people using AP to get everywhere risk averse (the way it used to be, this was actually ADDED to eve).

    T3 SP loss - same thing. Upgrading clone increases the risk associated with being podded (i.e. cost and SP loss if not done).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But are they GOOD increases in risk?

      Suppose you and I play Checkers. Only we have a house rule: every time you lose a piece, you have to say the word "hippopotamus!" really loud. Otherwise, the other player gets to punch you in the arm. So now I have the risk of losing pieces, mated to the risk of getting punched in the arm if I don't say the code word every time it happens. Is the latter really a good addition to the game?

      'cause that's all that having to upgrade a clone after you get podded is: the need to remember to shout "hippopotamus!" after losing a checker.

      Delete
    2. I said they were an increase to risk - i didn't say they were good!! :)

      Personally i think it's good that eve doesn't do it all for us. If, like with the clone, we removed that element (or the cost of it at least) what would be the risk of getting podded? I know, and im sure you do, lots of people that have lost things like BS lvl 5 through failing to upgrade it.

      AP to 10 is also good, beforehand it was very hard to catch people at gates, esp in low-sec.

      Whilst some of the other things you mention are annoying or blatently stupid, i think they make up alot of Eve's character as a game. We all play EvE instead of WoW for a reason :)

      Delete
    3. New type of bubble allowed in low-sec that brings people out of warp at 10km and has a chance to shut off their engines for a short period of time. Obviously there can be a defensive counter-measure to this type of bubble, and T3 interdiction-nullifier will combat these bubbles as well, but this would allow pirates to still gate-camp without making the game boring and annoying for all the wrong reasons.

      I love Eve, but honestly I do really like Ripard's points here. It's totally possible to make the game less annoying and FUN without ruining Eve's complex nature.

      Delete
    4. Lol, you're equating an additional cost for death to having to yell hippopotamus after 'death'? If the clone fee feels like yelling hippopotamus, then the best response by CCP would not be to REMOVE the clone fee, but to INCREASE the clone fee by a factor of 100. Then you won't be yelling hippopotamus, you'll be paying a fee again :) Meaningless choices are boring, but since we need more death penalty and more isk sinks, not less, giving the choice meaning is better than simply removing it.

      Delete
    5. This is so true. I just cancelled my sub to eve after a few years of wanting to love this game. The sandbox is incredible and spaceships rule, but this game really isn't a game at all as evidenced by the extremes people take (ddosing voice chats, websites, hacking forums). It is something you're either all in or all out for the long term. I tried to be a little in but it just didn't work.

      Delete
    6. I think you misunderstood what riprad said. It is not the cost of the clone. The problem is the manual upgrade of the new clone from the basic one each time you die.

      Delete
  49. I live in wspace mostly, and sometimes in null. Bookmarks are my bread and butter so i'll start with those.

    Why, good dear Empress Jamyl fucked in the a** by a brutor male, do I need to shift + clicky + drag and drop a BM ten folders below to have it in the appropriate folder/personal BMs? WHy can't i just Right Click > Copy to. And I agree, some corps directors just can't consider the possibility of renaming the most used folders for access convenience. Thanks for putting more power on those kind of players CCP.

    I'll just stop here. No point in keep going because that's just the way it is.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I just wish they would add more folders in the market for things like different plate sizes or eanm by resist type etc. I know you can add to the quickbar but thats just a workaround to a problem that should be really easy to fix.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I've been playing the Dust514 beta quite a bit lately and needless to say I die a lot. A LOT. I don't lose skillpoints for dying, I just try to get better. I honestly think that more people would get into PVP and not be so freaking worried about dying and getting podded if they didn't lose any SP for dying. Remove that mechanic entirely. Losing a ship with fittings worth 50mil is motivation enough to fly well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comes from the background story of Eve. Afaik do they have to upgrade the clones if they have learned more because the structure of certain brainareas do change with learning new stuff. If your consciousness is transferred to an old clone the brain can't just save all the new memories because the brain hasn't the right structure.

      Something like that. Read the Book of Eve if you're interested in it.

      Delete
  52. Why can I not transport my own rigged ships, but can transport those of others via courier contracts?

    This results in the silly alt-contract shuffle (contract ship to alt, alt courier contract to you, deliver, alt contracts ship back to you). WTF?

    ReplyDelete
  53. Ask and you shall receive: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73075.

    Still missing a lot of the items in your list, but hopefully this will make it easier for new player.

    ReplyDelete
  54. "SerpentineLogic probably has my favorite so far: why must we wait 24 hours between clone jumps?!? The blog post proposes a new skill to shorten the time between jumps. I propose just nuking the wait time. What reason is there for it at all? Great comments, everyone!"

    Yes, let's nuke the time, and let's have your ship go with you when you jump as well. Hell, let's just eliminate systems together and put all of the thousands of outposts/planets/belts/complexes together in Jita, we'll make it work by splitting Jita into shards, or instances, to coin a new, previously unused phrase.

    Are you serious? Even WoW has cooldowns on teleports, you want to nuke the timer completely? You've gone straight past trying to wowify EVE, into maplestory'ing it ~_~

    ReplyDelete
  55. Here's something that is WTF: Secure containers all can store more voulumes then they occupy... CCP broke the rulez... of physics once again lol

    ReplyDelete
  56. Why must I use a external Website or fly to a corporation stations to check their LP store items?

    Why I can not just use "copy to" for bookmarks in the rmb-menu?

    Why can my jump clone CD not be still down to something useful on daily base. Two Jumps per 24 hours for example to jump forth and back?

    Why I need to contract shuffle ships to transport them with rigs?

    Why is there not an industry ship dedicated to transport rigged and fitted ships? A space car transporter seems only logical.

    Why I have to invent each time a new version of my tech 2 ship, and this even when I actually have seen the real bpo? Why can I not create something more permanently?

    Why can I manual control my ship with mouse clicks but can not order more direct commands to change course?

    Why mining ships can not protected by logistics?

    Why empire feels so broken with ganking? Why you can always get attacked but are not entitled to fight back in empire?

    Why mining has to be a boring job for bots?

    ReplyDelete
  57. I travel a lot and would love to be able to have an extended skill queue, or the ability to manage a queue from a browser/account management. For the times when I won't have a machine capable of running the client for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Why do I have to Podkill someone to get the bounty for him? I guess in most cases it will cost him more if I just blow his ship up.

    ReplyDelete
  59. One I forgot about. Why, if I already bought the freaking Command Center, relocated extractors, extractor heads, industry facilities (of at least two kinds), launchpads, silos, and links, do I have to further develop my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome looking for said facilities, located somewhere far far away from the CC? Why the hell do i need to bring down the whole thing and buy another one and set it up all over again if all I need is to move my extractors around and have focus on my important facilities when i enter planet mode?

    Damn... Can't they just, i don't know, let you move the damned thing, or even easier, let you choose to set focus on a facility when entering planet view?

    ReplyDelete
  60. One would think that thousands of year in the future a lot of things can be automated and communication at large distance won't be a problem :)

    . why do i have to click dscan every few seconds (and why i don't have a key binding for dscan)?
    . why the autopilot it is so stupid?
    . why can't i see prices in all regions but i can see how many people died in a solar system at the end of the world?
    . why i can't transfer locations to a ship a few km away

    ReplyDelete